I've more or less said this before, but...

[mneme]

A lot of indie games give me exactly what I -say- I want -- a reliable path to a good story, a world that in effect works on story-logic as much as by in-world logic, stories that resolve and go somewhere, and almost by definition, player engagement with the situation and the characters.

What's interesting is that so many of them, while being successful in this, don't -actually- give me what I want; while the surface of what I desire are present, the heart of good play—not merely what I consider definitional to a "roleplaying game" but also what defines the pleasure of the form to me—is missing. FREX, in PTA (as in so many other game), the focus is on cutting to the conflict, so being in character and in-character conversation and revelation tends to get short shrift.

The cognitive disconnance is interesting, to say the least. Enlightening? Perhaps.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

For a long time I belived that story was a major part of what I liked in roleplaying. It wasn't really until I had played the new kind of narrativist games that I realised "being in character and in-character conversation" is what I want and that if it becomes a story or not is less important.

/ Jonas Barkå

unrealitiesofmine.blogspot.com

[mneme]

Exactly. For me, at least, the new-nar games do have a lot of cool stuff going on -- because story and engagement -are- important, and do enhance my enjoyment of roleplaying. But the trick is to take some of the techniques used in new-nar story games and use them effectively in games with more of a character focus.

[(Anonymous)]

True. Althou I personally do not like most of the forge-style games, following their development sure have made me realise how I can better focus on what *I* want.

Then, for other people the story really is the main point and I understand that this type of games is sort of a revelation.

/ Jonas Barkå

[mylescorcoran]

I think this is the real benefit of a lot of the design work that's come out of the Forge. Not the actual games, many of which I can't or don't want to play for whatever reason, but the realisation that there are useful techniques I can lift, fold, spindle, etc.

I have the impression that a lot of Forge/indie games are heavily focused on the authorial approach, which does conflict with character play, even if not all the time. This isn't a problem if the story is your main concern, but it doesn't always help if you also want to play a believable and fun character.