labcats | New Game (or at least, pitch)

mneme posting in

Pamela, Lisa, Beth and I got together tonight to game, and realized we didn't have anything to play. (editing for ljnames will happen later). So, brushing aside Lisa's idea of pitching yet another PTA game, we decided to run a freeform pitch session, with the only constant at the beginning being that I'd GM and that we'd figure out mechanics as we went (via consensus, of course...like the rest of the pitch).

Here's what we came up with. We haven't solidified the system yet, but we seem to be using something traitlike, plus kickers (from Sorceror) and keys (from TSOY). Current ideas for base system is a HQ hack (with these features), but that's the least locked down bit -- as seen below, we've mostly been doing qualitative character description, not quantitative.

Premise: Fantasy "Lost Technology" setting, with naval worldgates, adventures on the high seas, and extra-special adventures in the Etheric Seas beyond the gates. Magic is a combination of badly understood nanotech manipulation and psychic manipulation of the chaos created by worldgates. Worldgates interfere with solid matter around them, so only can be approached by sea, and are always surrounded by storms; thet lead to the etheric sea. Special skills (etheric navigation) are requiried to navigate between worldgates; a good stout wooden ship (why? maybe nanites in the wood, or a requirement that the mass you're in have been alive to sail hyperspace) is also usually required.

PCs:

Lisa: Christopher Riley
Government spy, cartographer, navagator. Has a trans-gate hidden radio. Can disguise himself or others.
Age: 31
Joint Kicker with Katrinella: Christopher Gets orders to apprehend/retrieve Katrinella.
Male, as usual
Key of Unflapability (1 point for remaining calm in the face of provocation. 2 when all hell's breaking loose. 5 endangered by being unflappable. Others get xp interacting with you in a way that "should" blow your cool, or for mentioning your unflappability in character)
Key of the False Face (1 xp whenever someone validates your disguise (they get 1 xp for this too) 2 xp whenever you get into an embarassing situation because of your disguise. 5 points when you get into trouble that could be avoided by revealing your true identity, and don't. others get 1 xp when they try to find out your true ID, from either direction. May cash out: when you reveal your true identity)
Key of the Servant. (to lose: disobey a direct order. 1 when you're given an order by your "master". 2 when following an order inconveniences you. 5 when following an order risks life and limb or screws you. Others get 2 xp when they get in the way of your orders or 1 when they help you accomplish them)
Proposed: Key of The Hidden Heart(Christopher+Jenny): Get XP when you fight with or do something out of affection for the other. May Cash out when the relationship is killed permenantly or is openly acknowleged.

Pamela: Jenny Starling, adventuring captain and gate-surfer.
Traits: Captain.
Pet: Small Octopus
Background: Jenny is the only known person to ever swim through hyperspace and survive. How she did it is a mystery, but she can apparently repeat the feat -- and is known to have done so, the second time she was marooned in hyperspace. However the experience has left her a little mad, and she can't remember everything that happened to her in hyperspace. This said, she's once again the captain of her own ship, and ready for adventure.
Key of Madness (xp when treated as mad, when you do something crazy, etc)
Key of Command (xp when others follow your order or when you give orders)
Key of Amnesia (gain 1 xp when you don't remember something, or when you lie to cover up a memory gap. 2 xp whenever anyone arbitrarily gives you a memory, they gain 1 xp. 5 xp when your forgotten history really hoses you. (because you remember it...or because you don't))
Proposed: Key of the Captain: Get xp when you protect your crew, ship, etc. Hmm)
Proposed: Key of the Pet. 1 xp when your pet appears in a scene, 2 xp when your pet does gets someone in trouble. 5 xp when you risk life or limb to save your pet. others get 1 xp if they bring your pet into their scenes and 2 when your pet gets them in trouble. to lose: lose/get rid of your pet...at least as a pet.
Proposed: Key of The Hidden Heart(Christopher+Jenny): Get XP when you fight with or do something out of affection for the other. May Cash out when the relationship is killed permenantly or is openly acknowleged.

Beth: Cat. Full name: Katrinella of Whytecliffe
Traits: Sorceress. Whytecliffe Islander (boating, diving)
Age: 12
Joint Kicker with Christopher: Christopher Gets orders to apprehend/retrieve Katrinella.
Concept: budding sorceresso on the run.
Background: used her chaos empathy to deal with a gate threatening her village. gate disappeared (she ate it, and doesn't know it) and strange things started happening to her; she left her village to avoid this unwanted interest and joined up with Captain Starling at Starling's last stop as a way to flee pursuit..and seek more information on her abilities.
Everyone says she was "swept away" -- but not before the rumors got out.
Magicians are looking for her, as a tool, as an apprentice, as whatever, having sensed a new sorceror being "born"
Key: They Key of False Face (Disguised as a boy) (1 xp whenever someone treats you like a boy. Others get 1 xp whenever they treat you like a boy. 2 xp whenever you get into an embarassing situation because of your disguise. 5 points when you get into trouble that could be avoided by revealing your true identity, and don't).
Key: The Quary (Pursued because she's a Magician)
Key: The Uncertain Mage (1 xp when you refrain from using magic where it would be convenient. 2 xp when a magical effect backfires, 5 xp when not using magic puts you in danger. buyoff: sufficient success on a magical task) (question on the 5)
Secret of Chaos: You may manipulate ambient chaos -- getting effects from or reducing or enhancing it -- but only when within a source of Chaos, like a gate.
First Secret of the Sorceror: 10 xp when you learn you've eaten a gate, 5 of which must be spent on buyong the second secret. You can do magic when not around a gate.
Second Secret of the sorceror (doesn't yet have this one): You can make raw. chaos Maybe can make a gate.

GM Notes: Some NPCs might be a snazzy idea. Don't have any yet, aside from the underdeveloped cephalapod.

For first arc, obvious A-plot is a treasure hunt, as Jenny remembers a fabulous treasure cache in the hypersea she found on one of her solo trips, but not all the obstacles in the way. B-plot will likely end up being the orders to Christopher and resulting conflict. Christopher's masters clearly include "evil" mages, probably including a sorceror.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

mylescorcoran

Have you played The Shadow of Yesterday or are you just adopting the keys mechanic from that game to try it out?

I like the look of keys but I don't know if they'd be to everyone's taste. For example,

peaseblossom recently posted about her difficulties with them. There's certainly a class of role-player who doesn't enjoy personality mechanics.

I like the sound of the setting so far. More?

From:

mneme

I haven't played TSOY, but I did skim it and the description of the !st Quest, a YA TSOY game Judd is working on, and became enamoured of the "key" mechanic, especially as 1Q uses it (your keys also give other people XP when they trigger them, in addition to you -- frex, when Julian describes a weather pattern being changed by Beth's character's moods, they both get XP).

I don't think keys are a personality mechanic, per se -- they're more of a circumstance mechanic. (the above mechanic isn't a personality thing -- nor is Beth's "get xp for doing climbing", nor, exactly, is Julian's "get XP for doing swashbuckling" (or something like that).). That said, it still may not work well for all players, but it does seem pretty robust.

I did run a session on Monday -- three days after sailing apparently aimlessly, Captain Jenny Starling remembered that she'd once come across a mysterious island floating, as no structures do, in the middle of the Etheric Sea. The crew set sail for it, reaching their goal despite Captain Starling's mis-rememberence of a gatestorm's spin (botched Captain roll + me exercising Jenny's key) and a sudden increase in the storm's intensity (botched Magic roll + me exercising Cat's key) almost destroying the ship -- which mysteriously righted itself when it looked like it was about to founder, and managed to travel through the storm/gate unharmed (me again, putting into practice previous ideas about there being something uncanny about the ship).

The crystal city was found with minimal further mishap, and the captain, the cabin boy, the navigator, and three crewmen braved the dangers of the artifact, while the first mate commanded the ship.

The reconniscance crew, after dealing with a number of traps which took out one crewmen (one detailed trap with a couple of conflicts, plus a montage scene of other traps, following which crewman #3 did not reappear) found a treasure of mysterious devices and unknown gems at the center of the edifice.

Meanwhile, the the ship was attacked by a nasty crab-creature, which gristly killed three crewmen before Durgan could drive it off single-handed (but not even Durgan's speed and skill with a blade could dispatch the critter before it fled).

Cat climbed a spire in the Crystal City, while the crewmen were preparing the loot for transport, and spotted the approach of a ship that had previously been seen crossing the path of the Typhoon. The command crew returned to the ship with haste (and the treasure), and attempted to avoid letting the other ship close, by (successfully) heading for the nearest gate (did I meantion this was uncharted territory? it was), and used the strange weather of the Etheric Sea to disguise their retreat. Unfortunately, right before they exited through the gate into the perpetual storm that surrounds the outside of the gates, three crab-creatures such as had been beaten off earlier jumped on board!

How will the crew of the Typhoon survive this trio of hazards -- hurricane, horrors, and unexplored waters? Tune in next time!

From:

mneme

I haven't played TSOY, but I did skim it and the description of the !st Quest, a YA TSOY game Judd is working on, and became enamoured of the "key" mechanic, especially as 1Q uses it (your keys also give other people XP when they trigger them, in addition to you -- frex, when Julian describes a weather pattern being changed by Beth's character's moods, they both get XP).

I don't think keys are a personality mechanic, per se -- they're more of a circumstance mechanic. (the above mechanic isn't a personality thing -- nor is Beth's "get xp for doing climbing", nor, exactly, is Julian's "get XP for doing swashbuckling" (or something like that).). That said, it still may not work well for all players, but it does seem pretty robust.

I did run a session on Monday -- three days after sailing apparently aimlessly, Captain Jenny Starling remembered that she'd once come across a mysterious island floating, as no structures do, in the middle of the Etheric Sea. The crew set sail for it, reaching their goal despite Captain Starling's mis-rememberence of a gatestorm's spin (failed Captain roll + me exercising Jenny's key) and a sudden increase in the storm's intensity (failed Magic roll + me exercising Cat's key) almost destroying the ship -- which mysteriously righted itself when it looked like it was about to founder, and managed to travel through the storm/gate unharmed (me again, putting into practice previous ideas about there being something uncanny about the ship).

The crystal city was found with minimal further mishap, and the captain, the cabin boy, the navigator, and three crewmen braved the dangers of the artifact, while the first mate commanded the ship.

The reconniscance crew, after dealing with a number of traps which took out one crewmen (one detailed trap with a couple of conflicts, plus a montage scene of other traps, following which crewman #3 did not reappear) found a treasure of mysterious devices and unknown gems at the center of the edifice.

Meanwhile, the the ship was attacked by a nasty crab-creature, which gristly killed three crewmen before Durgan could drive it off single-handed (but not even Durgan's speed and skill with a blade could dispatch the critter before it fled).

Cat climbed a spire in the Crystal City, while the crewmen were preparing the loot for transport, and spotted the approach of a ship that had previously been seen crossing the path of the Typhoon. The command crew returned to the ship with haste (and the treasure), and attempted to avoid letting the other ship close, by (successfully) heading for the nearest gate (did I meantion this was uncharted territory? it was), and used the strange weather of the Etheric Sea to disguise their retreat. Unfortunately, right before they exited through the gate into the perpetual storm that surrounds the outside of the gates, three crab-creatures such as had been beaten off earlier jumped on board!

How will the crew of the Typhoon survive this trio of hazards -- hurricane, horrors, and unexplored waters? Tune in next time!

From:

mylescorcoran

Okay, I agree that keys are more than personality mechanic, though they can work that way. I was only noting that they can get in the way for some kinds of players. Personally I quite like the look of them, and anything to encourage my players to do in-character or in-genre stuff is a bonus to my mind.

Has Judd got a playtest document for 1st Quest, or were you working from his posts on the Forge?

Your play report does sound like it's a fun game to play. I hope it has legs. Any chance of write-ups in A&E?

From:

mneme

Agreed on keys. Personally, I like them, and am tempted to use them even in games without experience (ie, "virtual keys" where tagging a key does nothing aside from providing satisfaction); they're a great way of both rewarding consistency and thought-out character change. I could, of course, easily see a player to whom key-checking was a fun-killing activity, though in our group,

ebartley, who's usually a litmus for such things, seems to have no problem with them (by contrast, she killed my initial ideas of using the HQ mechanic dead, causing me to switch to using our old standby -- the OTE+"all sixes explode" die mechanic).

I don't think Judd has a 1st Quest PT doc out; I was mostly going on Lisa's report of her playtest of his system, though I've skimmed some of the Forge posts.

I agree and hope the game has legs too -- my big disadvantages as a GM include an allergy to preparation and occasional creative blocks, so I'm going to try to force the players to help out with this aspect and fill in the gaps in my hastily formed ideas (the use of keys to encourage players
to be aggressively creative may help here).

One very minor concern is that the system is more or less designed to break down with sustained play -- unlike TSOY, we don't have a mechanism to retire over-powerful characters (nor would I want to; I like long-continuing characters), so eventually players will have all the xp they want and more.

I could see extending the system somewhat in a couple of directions -- if the GM got XP (and had limits), players might have a reason to spend XP in order to reduce the GM's pool and avoid her threats getting too ridiculous.

Additionally, if one really wants to increase the players involvement and expansion of any given session, one could have the GM create (or buy) keys to represent the various externalities currently active -- running plotlines, NPCs, and even the setting. Players (or the GM) tagging those things would get xp just as they did when tagging their own or each other's keys, thus rewarding players for validating/adding to the various NPCs, plotlines, and the campaign setting.

From:

mylescorcoran

I'm not surprised that the HQ mechanic was passed over. I'm a bit fed up with it now myself. I find that the augments idea is good in theory but often distracting in the heat of the moment, and if anything the levels of resolution (four levels of failure, four levels of victory and ties) are too many for a tired and imagination-poor GM to differentiate between in practice.

The problem of sustained play isn't limited to TSOY of course. D&D itself is a prime example of the dangers of continuous escalation. I like the idea of buying down the GM's threats and challenges as a good use of XPs.

I really like the idea of temporary keys, of either the GM's or the players' design, to focus on currently active elements. Again it rewards players who get into the plot and NPCs of the moment, and rewards any player willing to engage with the other players' creations, if you're using Judd's approach from 1st Quest.

From:

mneme

Agreed -- I'm not sure exactly why, but the OTE mod we use seems to have the right level of drama, variability, and ease of use.

Lisa and Beth agreed (and maybe Julian) that having the GM buy threats was an undue burden--that the GM should be more or less free to use whatever power level felt reasonable. But one suggestion, which seems good, is to let people buy features in the world or onto NPCs -- keys, secrets (from TOSY—special abilities without a numerical rating; feats, powers, items, etc), whatever (with a GM or group veto when the purchase is within the GM's purview, just as the GM can't drop a key or secret onto a player character willy nilly). Plus, of course, excess xp can serve as a harmless way of keeping score.

Re temporary keys, you're quite right, and I'm likely to use that as much as seems fun.

I'll note, btw, that one could make a GM-less system similar (but probably better, IMO) to Capes based around Keys. The primary things I think I find frustrating with Capes is that the dice play is tricky enough that it distracts from the story (and can make it hard to engage until the system is internalized, which may never happen) and that the goals serve as story-constraining, not really story-enabling measures. A key-based system (usuaing 1stQ keys) would, rather than having players attempt to engage the other players via adversity and being rewarded for pushing the right buttons, have the players putting out hooks involving what they, themselves were interested in, and then, by interacting with those, both get rewarded for stating their interests honestly and for interacting with other players' interests/having their own interests being interacted with by others.

As a complete aside, one dissapointing measure I've seen in some Indy games (including Capes and PTA) is circular strictly ordered turn-taking. Whlie in theory, turn-taking prevents players from monopolizing the action, I think the cure is worse than the disease -- the spontenaity of interests involved in a free-for-all is crucial to building a RPG vibe -- and stopping and waiting for whoever's turn it is can seriously impact a RPG session. So just as in a song-circle, I'll only prefer strict order if the groups size has become unmanagable, I don't think strict ordering rules are useful in RPGs with reasonable sizes -- they act as an unnecessary rule with most groups, and internal policing/management can solve the same problem far less intrusively.